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有时候在teslore论坛能看到一些漂亮的脑洞和精炼的总结,本贴将随机摘录一些来自teslore的发言以供探讨,摘录内容不代表个人观点。


IP属地:澳大利亚1楼2022-09-24 22:12回复
    奥比斯宇宙学
    大体来说,奈恩之所以在梦达斯的中心,所有天体的轨道运动之所以都要绕它进行,这都是因为梦达斯是奥比斯的核心,就像珍珠之于牡蛎。
    梦达斯层次结构如下:
    世界之心/洛克汗之心(有争议)
    居于正中央,是万物的中心,现实的本源。
    安眠轮
    发条装置组成的地幔,齿轮组范围可以有大陆那么大,也能小如微观粒子。紧密咬合,运转有序。据说这就是地骨的隐喻形象,是从凡人的角度理解地骨组织和作用的一种方式。每一块地骨或多或少司掌现世的某些特性,蕴含着创世者的大部分神力(举例来说,阿卡托什是时间之地骨,这就意味他的大部分神力都用于维系时间这一物理法则)。
    奈恩核
    剧毒的不稳定物质,有迹象表明它具有高度放射性,这种物质组成了地表和安眠轮之间的屏障,令二者得以互不干扰。它也许还是一种散热膏,因为安眠轮会产生热量(类似于三次元中的地热能),这些热量会通过奈恩核传导出去。
    岩浆
    安眠轮产生的热量让岩浆不会冷却。
    地壳
    就像三次元中的地壳板块一样。
    地表
    凡人栖息于其上。
    大气
    没有它,凡人无法呼吸。
    奈恩生成的现实场的外围
    令事物维持稳定和具有意义。
    外层空间
    梦达斯的外层,既不属于奈恩也不属于湮灭,行星在其中环绕着奈恩运动,它们是将自己力量献给地骨的伊德拉的遗骸。还有玛格努斯,一个从现世中撕开的通向光界的大洞,作为太阳为世界提供热量,光,魔法。奈恩由龙火屏障和月栅保卫,抵挡迪德拉的入侵,以精金塔为首的诸塔生成的边界屏障保卫着整个梦达斯,将湮灭隔绝在外。
    湮灭
    边界屏障之外便是湮灭,在这里线性时间和空间一致性这样的概念不过只是参照。湮灭离地骨很远很远,因而湮灭中的物质不受地骨控制,这种物质被称为混沌创质(基本上可以说是原初的质料),足够强大的实体能够将其用于塑形,迪德拉君主正是用混沌创质来维持他们的领域,次级迪德拉则用混沌创质来维系形体。
    限制由地骨施加,而湮灭的特征之一正是远离地骨,所以湮灭和光界没有明确的边界,但是玛格纳吉在现世中撕开的洞——也就是星星通往了光界,因此在有的位置光界距离边界屏障更近,有的则较远,这取决于追随他们领袖的玛格纳吉何时成功逃离这个世界。
    实际上,在创世蓝图中,没有玛格纳吉会逃离,没有迪德拉会反叛,一切均遵从洛克汗的谋划,湮灭会作为光界和梦达斯不可逾越的屏障。
    光界
    光界既是诸神的起源位面,也是存在的基准。世界在本质上就倾向于光界。众神之所以能同时存在于四处:(作为神,作为地骨,作为尸体,身处光界),是因为逻辑这一概念本身就不能在光界成立。这是一种永存的状态,所有事物既可为真也可为假。这意味着在光界内,所有原灵都选择了参与创世,又选择留在光界,这种矛盾之所以能存在,是因为“你在任何时间内都只能存在于空间一点”只是地骨施加的一条定律。
    叙述至此奥比斯已是哲学化的概念,最终的屏障更多是本体论上的,而非实际存在的结构。分隔光界和虚空的只在于“存在”与否,“存在”存在于光界,“不存在”存在于虚空。


    IP属地:澳大利亚2楼2022-09-24 22:17
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      原文:
      Basically, the reason Nirn is at the center of Mundus and all other bodies orbit it is because Mundus is the core of the Aurbis - it is the pearl at the center of the clam, so to speak.
      Mundus' layers are
      The Heart of the World/Lorkhan (disputed) This is the center, the crux of the whole thing. It's the source of the world's "realness" so to speak.
      The Wheels of Lull, a mantle of clockwork, ranging from continent-sized to microscopic, all interlocking and turning in tandem. It's theorized that these are the narrative equivalent of a visual metaphor for the Earthbones, i.e. a way for the mortal mind to understand what the Earthbones do and how they are arranged. Each Earthbone governs some aspect of reality, big and small, and holds the majority of the donated divine power of its patron (so Akatosh, for instance, is the Earthbone of Time, meaning the majority of his divine energy goes into maintaining said physical law).
      The Nirncrux, which is an ephemeral, highly toxic and implied to be highly radioactive semi-solid substance that forms a barrier between the surface and the Wheels, to protect both from eachother. May also be a reference to thermal paste, due to the way it disperses the heat generated by the wheels below upwards in a way that mimics geothermal energy irl.
      A layer of liquid magma, kept that way by the heat of the wheels below.
      The crust, as irl, with tectonic plates and all.
      The surface, with all the mortals.
      The atmosphere, which all the mortals breathe
      The outer reaches of the "reality field" generated by Nirn that keeps things stable and making sense
      Outer space, which is not quite Oblivion, but not really Nirn either.
      Circling around Nirn, but still within Mundus, are the planets - basically, the divine "corpses" of all the Aedra who donated their power to the Earthbones, as well as Magnus, a hole torn into reality that leads to Aetherius, which is analogous to the sun and provides heat and light and magic to the world.
      Nirn is reinforced by the Dragonfire Barrier as well as the Lunar Lattice, which protect it from Daedric incursion, and Mundus as a whole is protected by the Liminal Barrier, which keeps out Oblivion itself, and emanates from the Adamantine Tower, as well as its lesser cousin Towers.
      Outside the Liminal Barrier begins Oblivion, where things like linear time or spatial consistency are mere suggestions. Oblivion is very, very far from the Earthbones, meaning they have little to no grip on its substance. This substance, known as Chaotic Creatia (basically raw primal existence) can be shaped by a sufficiently powerful entity, which is how the Daedric Princes maintain their realms and lesser daedra maintain their bodies.
      Because Oblivion is characterized by its distance from the limit-imposing Earthbones, there is no clear point where it ends and Aetherius begins, but there is such a point, because the Stars are, like Magnus, holes torn into the fabric of reality that lead there. Some are closer, some are more distant, all determined by when the Magna-Ge that made it fled the world to follow their leader (Magnus).
      In essence, in the original plan of Nirn's creation (where none of the magna-ge fled, none of the daedra rebelled and everyone had submitted to Lorkhan's scheme), Oblivion would have functioned as an insurmountible barrier between Aetherius and Mundus.
      Aetherius is both the ancestral plane of the gods as well as the baseline of existence. It's what the world naturally tends towards. The reason the gods can exist in four places at once (as gods, as earthbones, as corpses and within Aetherius) is because the very concept of logic itself doesn't grip in Aetherius. It's the state of timeless existence, where all things can be true and untrue at the same time. Meaning that within Aetherius, each Et'ada (original spirit) at once chose to take part in Mundus' creation AND remained behind, a contradiction that can exist because logic like "you can only exist at one point in space at any moment in time" is part of the laws the Earthbones enforce.
      Because it gets increasingly philosophical further out, the final "barrier" is more ontological than any real structure. The separation between Aetherius and The Void is a question of being. Things that "are" exist in Aetherius, and everything that "is not" doesn't exist, and is therefore part of the Void.


      IP属地:澳大利亚3楼2022-09-24 22:18
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        迪德拉君主关系学
        根据莱朗斯所说,迪德拉君主之间的关系不能概况为简单的二元对立,像是“朋友”和“敌人”,或者“喜欢”和“仇恨”。她把凡人对于关系的概念称作“廉价的二元论”,其不足以概括迪德拉阵营“崇高的复杂性”。关键在于迪德拉君主自身的领域以及某一段时间内他们的追求产生了何种关联。而且不管迪德拉君主之间有何协定,他们都秘而不宣,即使对那些不是君主的迪德拉来说,这些信息也不是公开的。这可能也意味着应该对任何宣称了解君主们如何交涉的凡人心存疑虑。
        (莱朗斯的原话:“至于梅鲁涅斯·大衮和海尔辛的关系?没办法向凡人解释君主间的协议。你们那些关于“朋友”和“敌人”的廉价二元论无法概括这类联系中崇高的复杂性。当然,海尔辛和大衮确实追寻相似的利益。尊崇恐怖主义,追求意志的胜利和血腥的终局。君主们确实偶尔也协同行动,但他们对这类事务不置一词。”)
        而尽管凡人宣称玛拉凯斯不被其余君主认作是迪德拉君主的一员,但阿祖拉不仅承认他是迪德拉君主之一,还称他为“最强大的迪德拉君主之一”,谢尔格拉称他为兄弟并说沃伦神锤“是一件货真价实的迪德拉器物”。
        同样地,阿祖拉,波耶希亚,梅法拉在卡吉特神话和丹莫信仰(三好迪德拉)中被视作是结盟的庇护者,但是梅法拉依然和诺克图娜尔以及卡拉库斯·维尔密谋,计划损害其余势力,攫取整个现世,为此他们建立Court of Bedlam以打击其余君主的教团。
        凡人对于神灵的任何说法都不一定准确。对此莱朗斯是这么说的:
        “这个想法来源于一个错误的主张——即梦达斯和湮灭没什么不同,前者只是后者的一部分,因此它可以很方便的归属于大衮。告诉我,你是听大衮亲自对你说的,还是他哪个追随者告诉你的?给你一些不朽的建议:‘少管那些愚蠢的教徒。’“


        IP属地:澳大利亚4楼2022-09-28 22:08
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          According to Lyranth the relationships between Daedric Princes can't be boiled down to binaries such as "friend" and "foe" or "like" and "hate" (she calls mortal conceptions of relationships "cheap dualisms" that can't capture the "sublime complexity" of Daedric alignments).
          It's seemingly more about their spheres and how their pursuit intersects at a given time. And whatever accords exist between Princes are private, even to non-Prince Daedra, they're not public knowledge (which probably means one should be doubly skeptical of any mortal claims of understanding how Princes interact with one another).
          As for the relationship between Mehrunes Dagon and Hircine? There is no way to explain the accords of Princes to mortals. Your cheap dualisms of "Friend" and "Foe" cannot capture the sublime complexity of such associations. Hircine and Dagon do, of course, pursue parallel interests. The primacy of terror, the triumph of the will, the pursuit of bloody ends, and so on. Princes do, occasionally, act in concert. But they keep their own counsel on matters of this scale.
          Despite the mortal claims that Malacath is supposedly not considered a Daedric Prince by the rest, Azura acknowledges him as not just a Daedric Prince (he was one of the Princes that entered the Coldharbour Compact, the Pariah) but also names him as "one of the most powerful Princes", and Sheogorath speaks of him as a sibling and calls Volendrung "a true Daedric artifact."
          Likewise, Azura, Boethiah and Mephala are generally viewed as aligned patrons by Dunmeri faith (the Three Good Daedra) and Khajiiti mythos, but Mephala was still a member of the Triad (Nocturnal, Mephala, Clavicus Vile) that plotted to seize all reality to the detriment of all other forces and worked against the cults of the other Princes through their Court of Bedlam in preparation for doing so.
          What mortal sources claim the various deities think isn't always accurate. Lyranth has some choice words on the matter:
          This idea derives from the false assertion that Mundus is not distinct from Oblivion. That it is one of its constitutive realms—a realm that conveniently belongs to Dagon. Tell me, have you heard Dagon himself make this claim? Or is this simply what one of his followers told you? Here is some immortal advice: pay less attention to idiotic cultists.


          IP属地:澳大利亚5楼2022-09-28 22:10
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            继续发啊


            IP属地:天津来自Android客户端6楼2022-10-19 15:03
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              如果你玩了《湮灭》,你就会知道里面的骷髅有多难打,这些骨头架子真的很扛揍。然而《天际》的骷髅却不用操什么心,你只要随便打他们几下,挠挠他们的笑骨,他们就自己倒了,他们凹陷的眼窝里就不再发光。
              产生这种差异的原因我认为很简单:诺德人对喝牛奶的文化禁忌,每个诺德男人女人小孩还有尸鬼都管自己不喜欢的人叫“喝牛奶的”,这也是游戏里就只能看见那么几罐牛奶的原因,没人愿意承认自己喝牛奶,免得遭受侮辱。但是众所周知,牛奶是钙的主要来源,钙是一种矿物质,可以保持你的骨骼和牙齿健康。
              总之,在天际,骷髅都是纸做的,因为诺德人全是讨厌喝牛奶的笨蛋。


              IP属地:澳大利亚7楼2022-10-20 12:15
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                If you've played Oblivion, you know how tough skeletons are. Those boneheads can really take some serious beating. But for some reason, those same guys in Skyrim takes absolutely nothing to dispose of. You just punch them a few times, just tickle their funny bone, and they fall down, the glow in their hollow sockets disappears.


                IP属地:澳大利亚8楼2022-10-20 12:16
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                  IP属地:澳大利亚14楼2022-10-20 16:05
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                    虚空综述
                    在黑暗中,洛克哈明白了。不存在并不存在。什么都没有的地方就什么都有可能。因此他在虚空中找到了一个空间,那里可能存在一切。
                    ——Vatesran Eoinola
                    虚空既是一个位置概念,也是一种形而上学的力量,它似乎包裹了整个奥比斯,但也存在于它的各个位面之间,它是区域与区域之间存在的区域,据说寻求创造一个新维度的神灵首先需要在虚空中为这个维度找到一个位置(在瑞驰人的信仰中,洛克哈与娜米拉的契约为梦达斯提供了这个位置,在其他大部分信仰体系中,它是由吉内/凯纳瑞斯提供的)。
                    当瑞驰的一部分在从梦达斯向湮灭传输时,传输中断,这部分区域陷入了我们称之为虚空的无限混沌之中,创造了一个不由任何迪德拉君王和其他神明掌控(也许除了娜米拉和洛克)的地方,这就是灰港。
                    前瑞德塔尔降启时代信仰和瑞驰人的信仰中,虚空是娜米拉的领域,这些信仰尊她为至暗或魂灵女王,统治着无限的精神领域,阴影和Dro-m'Athra这样的虚空生物认为娜米拉和洛克哈/洛克哈吉是力量在虚空和自己祖先之上的神明,洛克哈的黑暗之心被描述为被困在奈恩的一片原初虚空,似乎说的正是阿祖拉施行善举从洛克哈吉身上掏出的那颗黑暗之心。
                    在前降启时代的信仰中,诺克图娜尔/Noctra诞生于洛克哈吉遭到背叛和重伤所留下的黑血之中,她同样与至暗联系在一起,当她被召唤时便会带来至暗。根据她的伯爵薇娅的说法,她早早先于现世而存在,而在eso夏暮岛章节中,她的主要目的便是让所有存在复归虚无,在下一个现世重新诞生。
                    黑暗兄弟会将虚空与西帝斯联系在一起。尼斯沃也是如此,他们是亚龙人信仰中西帝斯的祭司,不过与兄弟会不同,他们将西斯视为一个更广泛的关于变化的概念,而不仅仅是一种虚无和终结的力量。
                    瑞驰人也和尼斯沃看待西帝斯一样,对虚空持有更积极的看法 ,他们认为虚空是一切可能性存在的地方。


                    IP属地:澳大利亚15楼2022-10-20 18:06
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